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Sage Advice from 40-Year Marketing Veteran Joel Book of Salesforce

Joel Book of Salesforce

When you look up the definition of sage advice, it states proceeding from or characterized by wisdom, prudence, and good judgment. This defines the career of Joel Book. In my tenure at ExactTarget, my path crossed with Joel throughout events, prospect meetings, and client discussions… and I’m a better person and marketer for knowing him.

Joel is the Director of Digital Marketing Insight for Salesforce. As a founding member of the Marketing Insights team for the Salesforce Marketing Cloud, Joel teaches companies how to use customer data, digital media, and marketing automation technology to deliver a seamless customer experience across online and offline channels.

Joel’s optimism is both undying and contagious. He never stopped pushing the importance of email, the importance of measurement, and the importance of being a student every day of your career. Joel was one of the first senior marketers that I worked with that also understood the impact of his work on sales. If Joel could just take the time to educate and inspire a prospect, he knew they would close when they understood the opportunity in front of them.

In fact, I shared how great this interview was with another colleague who worked in sales at ExactTarget. He chuckled and said the best customers he closed were the ones that just walked out of Joel’s sessions.

A few weeks ago, I saw Joel on the Circle in downtown Indianapolis and pulled over. I asked him if I could get him onto the podcast and he immediately agreed with all the enthusiasm I experienced when working with him. Imagine my surprise to find out that Joel was also leaving Salesforce. That made the importance of this podcast twice as important.

I’m so grateful for having this opportunity to interview Joel! We even did a rewind on our careers and agreed on our appreciation of Arthur Hughes’ foundational book, Strategic Database Marketing. The book continues to hold up as a foundation for marketers today to measure, analyze, and optimize their marketing strategies.

PS: Please notice I didn’t say retirement. While I have little doubt that Joel looks forward to less time in airports and more time with his family, I also still hear the passion in his voice as he speaks about our industry. I hope and believe we’ll hear from him again soon!

Joel Book Interview Transcript:

Douglas Karr: Well, welcome everybody to another, in our interview series of MarTech and I have an amazing friend, colleague, gentleman, mentor, boy all of these things sitting across from me in our offices which is a real treat. I have Joel Book of Salesforce. How are you, sir?

Joel Book: Doug, it’s such a pleasure to see you again. Thank you very much for the invitation. I’m not sure I’m worthy of all of those accolades, but it’s so fun to be able to sit down with you today. Thanks for the invitation.

Douglas Karr: Well, you deserve them and you made an announcement here recently that shocked the world.

Joel Book: Oh, I don’t know that it shocked the world. Maybe a few of my colleagues and in our industry were surprised to hear that I am retiring.

Douglas Karr: Yeah.

Joel Book: August 1 is my official date of exit from Salesforce. I’ve had a blessed career. I think is the best way to say it. I’m now in my 41st year in marketing. The last 14 years of which have been at exact target and then of course Salesforce for the last four years so it’s been … It’s just been a highlight of my career.

Douglas Karr: Well, having worked with you directly and indirectly at Salesforce, it was an absolute pleasure and I’m not sure there’s anybody who wouldn’t say so that worked with you. You made a huge impact on that organization’s culture.

Joel Book: Well, I think the thing that I feel so fortunate about is that I’ve really had a front row seat seeing the evolution of digital marketing, being a spokesperson for the industry both at exact target and then now for the last four years here at Salesforce, it’s been a pleasure to be not just a spokesperson, but a teacher.

I think at the end of the day that’s probably the thing about my work here that I’ve enjoyed the most is teaching brands, teaching other marketing professionals, not just what’s happening in the evolution of digital marketing, but what’s possible.

As you know Doug, as the number of communication channels and touchpoints has accelerated over the last five to ten years, things move very, very quickly and if you don’t keep up, if you don’t understand what’s happening and learn from what other brands are doing, you can get left behind. It’s been my pleasure to be that ambassador for digital marketing.

Douglas Karr: When I think that you’re saying something really important there because when you look at the number of businesses and industries that are either shrinking or collapsing, a lot of it was due to their lack of investment into digital and really taking on the customer experience from the phone to the TV to everything that we’re utilizing so whether my time was in newspapers and I always tell people that it wasn’t a murder, it was a suicide that when we had the 40% profit margins, we weren’t putting them in digital and we’re watching folks like eBay, [polar 00:03:31] classifieds.

Joel Book: Sure.

Douglas Karr: Everything else and nowadays, it’s the retailers we see here locally even that folks are going under and I know internally we worked with some of them and they refused to make the investment. By not making that investment, they made themselves obsolete and I think that’s the growing lesson here, right? The company is that are really leading the way are just making massive R&D investments into digital and it’s a lesson for every company.

Joel Book: It’s a big lesson. It’s an expensive lesson unfortunately for some organizations for some industries Doug that have had blinders on and refused to see what was happening around them. You talk about newspapers, but your correct, right now we’re seeing major transformation happening in retail.

We’re seeing major transformation happening in B2B or many B2B organizations have now rightfully made the move to ecommerce because that’s the way business buyers now want to buy, not necessarily buy a half million dollar articulated holler, but they certainly may want to be buying some of the accessory items that go along with that particular product.

Things are changing dramatically. I think one of the things that I’ve learned in the last 14 years is that if you don’t, if you’re on the brand side as a marketing sales customer service professional and you don’t put the customer first and really begin to understand what type of experience you’re delivering to that customer, not doing that is basically a death knell for your brand because today’s customer is also highly influential. You deliver a great customer experience.

They will reward you by sharing their experience with others. They will reward you by renewing or repurchasing again. I like to say that as a guy that started 40 years ago in direct marketing and custom publishing, all marketing today is direct.

Douglas Karr: Yes.

Joel Book: Every single channel up to an including advertising which can now be precision delivered to an individual where they are exposed to that ad on Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn. Whatever the channel might happen to be. I think one of the biggest changes I’ve seen in my career is this complete return to data driven, highly personalized, highly targeted messages that are delivered to that individual that’s why all marketing, all customer service, all selling is direct.

Douglas Karr: That’s a great lesson for everybody listening. I used to joke with people and I was doing direct mail that the time we had was between the mailbox and the trashcan. Now, that splintered 800 different ways because even as you’re getting your mail, you’re carrying your iPhone with you.

Joel Book: Well you are, but what I have found is interesting. I look at some of our more innovative customers that are now using direct mail.

Douglas Karr: Yes.

Joel Book: In combination with email and SMS before the catalog goes out via the mail, there’s an SMS alert that comes out to the customer letting him or her know the catalog is in the mail, special offers for you based on your previous purchases can be found in a link to this SMS message or they’re doing the same thing through email.
Marketing and stereo or this coupling effect as I call it where you’re using email in combination with direct mail or SMS or targeted ad, this is what the smart brands are doing. I think the retailers that get that are making huge headway in terms of preserving their customer base rather than standing by and watching it erode.

Douglas Karr: Yeah, it’s not a either or approach anymore. We have customers fragmented and they choose their own communication methodologies, right?

Joel Book: Well, they do and the smart marketers today understand that all customers are not alike and that they do access your brand through different channels. You and I are never going to be able to predict what those channels are. Maybe artificial intelligence overtime will allow us to understand more about which channels Doug Karr prefers to engage with me through and maybe we can inform marketing customer service messages accordingly to be able to cater to you through those channels that you tend to use most regularly.

I think the thing that we’ve seen though is that if you’re going to be a really successful marketing professional today and I would even extend that to customer service professional, you need to be able to have command over multiple channels, multiple touchpoints because your customer is connected to you through all of those and that’s one of the things at Salesforce that we have focused so hard on is delivering solutions to companies be it marketing cloud, service clouds, sales cloud, community cloud and now commerce cloud where all of these different solutions work together to be able to serve the customer.

Douglas Karr: That’s critical. I think the marketer of yesteryear, we’re a couple of gray-haired guys sitting across from each other, we were often able to craft the message, make it beautiful and put it out there but we never had to respond to it.

Joel Book: Right.

Douglas Karr: Our sales teams responded and our support teams responded, but that wasn’t public at that time. That was one-on-one conversations and I think that this new stack, the marketing stack that you’re talking about is great because it takes that you were talking about the customer that if you have an unhappy customer, they’re going to go out on social and they’re going to respond or they’re going to do word of mouth with the sales person and it’s going to impact sales.

Nowadays, you really do need that centralized look at the customer so that your sales person is as intelligent about the relationship as your marketer is, as your customer support person is, right?

Joel Book: That’s exactly the case. I like to say that it’s not just the marketing stack, you and I know what that looks like today, but I think increasingly it’s the customer experience stack where you have marketing technology working hand in glove with the customer service technology, sales technology.

A lot of our customers today like the Home Depot for example has taken our community cloud product and now stood up an online portal that’s stocked with a content for the do-it-yourselfer because what the Home Depot understands is that as do-it-yourselfers, we want access to content that helps us re-tile the bathroom or learn how to do it.

Douglas Karr: Yeah.

Joel Book: What are the materials I need, give me access to the Home Depot specialist who can guide me through that process. What the Home Depot gets and what I think more brands are finally beginning to discover is that serving has become the new selling and that the brands that focus on the customer and cater to the customer’s desire to be served, not sold. These are the brands that are really developing very, very long term customer loyalty, developing customer brand advocates so back to your point and these are individuals that if you deliver a great experience for them, they will gladly share that with others.
I think that’s why you’re beginning to see more dramatic focus on customer experience. I mean, McKinsey & Company has done some great work in this whole area where they’ve talked about the business impact of automating customer journeys and personalizing customer journeys to deliver this end-to-end customer experience.

Not just doing a great job during the product evaluation and selection process, but what do you do post purchase. That’s why as I said before, we’re seeing more brands now using marketing technology in combination with service technology again to anticipate the customer’s needs and interests and cater to that.
As I see it, the triangle offense of really effective customer experience today is data, really good technology or technologies that work together and content. You take those three components and you do a great job of using data to predict what type of information would be most useful to you Doug based on where you’re at in your journey with my brand.

Are you in the early stage where you’re evaluating or are you a long time user and now need access to different kinds of services, different kinds of content. The better job I do predicting what’s going to be a value to you and delivering that to you, the longer I’m going to hopefully be able to earn your business.

Douglas Karr: You blew me away when you mentioned Home Depot and I’ll you why it’s pretty funny. We didn’t rehearse this for everybody listening, but literally this morning, my daughter lives … I live in an A-frame and my upstairs is always warmer than my downstairs. It’s a typical problem and we had an AC unit up there and it went.

I was evaluating new portable air conditioning units online. I’m a huge Amazon prime lover. I’ve ordered from which is pretty … Is really starting to grab some market share as well, but as I was doing searches, the only people that had an explanatory video on the model that I was looking on, it was hair air conditioner was Home Depot.

It was a very, very, very general. It wasn’t a sales guy. It was just an associate and he was walking through all of the features of it and everything else and I got more information out of that little 45-second video than I did any of the other ones. It’s just incredible that you mentioned Home Depot because at 7:00 this morning I was watching a Home Depot video.

Joel Book: Well, one of the things we’ve learned in the evolution of marketing and how digital has completely transformed marketing is that video in terms of different types of content, video continues to be the highest converting form of content.

Douglas Karr: Yeah.

Joel Book: Why? Because it’s educational. The Home Depot is one of the first brands to actually stand up a YouTube channel that now has its entire collection of how-to videos. The last statistic I think I recall Doug is that that entire collection of how-to videos on the Home Depots YouTube channel has had over 50 million views.

Douglas Karr: Wow.

Joel Book: What the Home Depot understands is that again, if you teach the customer how to really do that project successfully, if you teach the customer what particular solutions are available, i.e the air conditioner situation that you’ve just talked about, the greater job you do in earning their business.

Douglas Karr: Yes.

Joel Book: For some brands that has become much more intuitive for them, others are coming to that reality later, but serving has become the new selling. Our friend Jay Baer at Convince & Convert wrote a very powerful book several years ago called Youtility. For your listeners, I would urge them to check it out. Y-O-U-tility and the basic premise of Jay’s book was that successful marketing in this era of the connected customer is so much more about helping than it is about hyping and that the most successful marketing is that which really serves the customer and that’s why the Home Depot is a great example of that.

There are so many other brands out there that are also a great examples that’s why my role at Salesforce as teacher has been to share those stories and use them in a way to help brands understand the changing dynamics of marketing in this era and what’s possible.

Douglas Karr: We’ve spoken a lot about those changing … What’s changed with our industry for someone who’s a veteran of the industry for 41 years, what hasn’t changed? What do marketers need to that 40 years ago, we were worried about and today we should still be worried about?

Joel Book: I think what … There are probably three things that haven’t changed. One, the customer must be the centerpiece of your whole strategy. You can’t sit in your cube or in your office and strategize about a new brand launch or a new product launch without having strong customer insight.

That’s why when I talked earlier about the triangle offense of customer experience, it really does begin with data and back to your point, you can’t have data scattered. You have to have one central repository of what you need to know about the customer to be able to understand what content, it might be information, invitations, offers, customer service, what would be most useful to that customer at this point in time?

You really need to have a fundamental understanding of that. I think the other thing that hasn’t changed is data. You and I grew up in direct marketing, both of us spend a lot of time in direct mail marketing. You have to have ways to be able to acquire that data whether it’s explicitly where the customer gives it to us or implicitly by observing what events is that customer attending, what products or solutions are they browsing on the website, what videos are they accessing.

That’s an indication of what their needs might be and now we’re on the cusp of this whole new era of artificial intelligence which I personally I think Doug is going to change a lot of things. It’s going to change the way in which our software products are engineered because we will have in our particular case at Salesforce, we’ll have Einstein embedded. Einstein is our artificial intelligence technology that will then be constantly learning what’s really important so that we can serve customers better.

It will make sales people more productive customer service people, more responsive marketers, much more effective in terms of the campaigns that they’re executing, but I think the other thing that hasn’t changed is content. Now, our friend Joe Pulizzi at Content Marketing Institute deserves a lot of props for starting the Content Marketing Institute because one of the things that Joe and his team clearly understand is that the way in which consumers or business buyers function today is that we have become really, really web savvy researchers.

Douglas Karr: Yes.

Joel Book: The brands that understand that stock their websites, stock their YouTube channels with content that makes it easy for us to inform ourselves. Nobody wakes up the morning, if you’re a consumer or a business buyer, you don’t wake up in the morning and say, “Geez, I hope today is the day somebody tries to sell me something.”

Douglas Karr: Yeah.

Joel Book: But back to your comment earlier about the air conditioning situation, you didn’t get on the phone and start calling.

Douglas Karr: Right.

Joel Book: The Home Depot or Lowe’s or somebody like that, you started to research yourself, but that’s the way consumers are wired. We want to serve ourselves first. We want answers to questions. The constant in modern era marketing is good content that is accessible to the consumer. Data which allows us to understand and anticipate what the customer’s needs are and then technologies that allow us to really engage the customer in ways that he or she wants to be engaged.

Those I think are the three constants, but today’s marketing or customer service professional really needs to be smart enough to understand how to have a customer first viewpoint in developing the different strategies and tactics to serve that consumer.

Douglas Karr: With everything readily available to consumers and businesses to do that research online, you really do have to look at what is your competition doing that you’re not. At times, we’ve heard specially in B2B, we’ve heard people say, “Well, 90% of our business is word of mouth.” And I always come back and I say, “Well, that’s interesting, but when you make that connection with someone, what do you think the first thing they do is?” And they go, “Well, what do you mean?” I said, “Well, you met me today. What’s the first thing that you’re going to do after I leave the office?”

Joel Book: Right.

Douglas Karr: Well, you’re going to look me up online.

Joel Book: Sure.

Douglas Karr: You’re going to say, “Is he legitimate? Does he know what he’s talking about? Does he have authority in this space?” We have a customer, Lifeline Data Centers, a huge Midwest Data Center, really strong growth everything and Alex will tell you that as long as I’m on the search page, I don’t even care if it’s number one, as long as I’m on the search page, that means that I’m going to get an opportunity to put in an RFP and in the meantime I have an opportunity to sit at the table.

When people come to the search page and find me and then they go to my site, I want to make sure that they see that I understand what their problem is. They’re going to see the white papers and the infographics and the case studies that they need to say, “These are serious players.”

Joel Book: That same philosophy, not philosophy, but that same dynamic extends over to brands. You and I have been in the business long enough to know that a brand is not necessarily what the brand says about themselves. It’s what their customers say about them.

Douglas Karr: Yes.

Joel Book: 90% of consumers today and business buyers trust online reviews and ratings from their peers.

Douglas Karr: Yes.

Joel Book: That’s why so many brands, one of my favorite examples as you well know over the years, I love to talk about Scotts Miracle-Gro because Scotts is a textbook example of a consumer package goods brand that sells through channel partners, Lowe’s, Home Depot, Walmart, True Value, Ace Hardware, et cetera, but one of the things that Scotts has done so expertly is serve their customers by providing content information about what Scotts’ product to use, let’s just say it’s turf builder, when to use it and how to use it to get the best results.

They do that on their website. They send me an email. I just got one just over the weekend reminding me that now that we’re in the thrills of summer, now is the time to apply summer guard to your lawn. Here’s when to apply it, here’s how to apply it. They send me an SMS, they call it a Scotts alert. It’s an SMS message also reminding me now is the time. What Scotts is really smart about is that the very first time I came to their website Doug, they invited me to register. Most brands don’t do that.

Douglas Karr: Right.

Joel Book: The reason that Scotts wanted me to register is because they wanted to know what zip code I reside in because with that single piece of data, all of the content on that website now changes for me so that they’re delivering product information, but also user reviews and ratings about the products from people in my area. That is smart marketing and it’s one of the reasons why Scotts dominates the lawn and garden products industry.

Douglas Karr: I often share the story back. This is back when we were working together back then, but Scotts had … They were taking data from their customer service people regionally and pumping that back into their content. I think it was a really sexy topic like grub alerts that if they all of a sudden saw a high call volume with a certain problem in a certain region, then they would push content and say, “Hey, you’ve got this problem in your region and here’s the product to take care of it.” Brilliant.

Joel Book: It is brilliant but it’s common sense marketing.

Douglas Karr: Yes.

Joel Book: Today, they are obviously plugged in to all of the weather conditions whether it be drought, flood or what have you that may cause somebody to have problems in their lawn and they use that data to then trigger specific messages that go out to their customers alerting them to the potential for that problem and if you have this problem, here’s what to do.

Have a question? Here’s a link to speak to one of our Scotts product specialist. There are textbook example of serving the customer, going back to our earlier conversation and I think as far as consumer package goods brands, they do a lot of things really, really well.

Douglas Karr: An amazing company that because they work through channel distribution tying that conversion back to that activity is a very difficult task for them.

Joel Book: Attribution.

Douglas Karr: Yeah.

Joel Book: It is.

Douglas Karr: I think it shows that regionally, of course, they can see sales and observe what the reaction is to what they’re doing, but I think it’s a great example of this is a tough attribution model and they know it works and they do have the data overall to back it up and I think that’s something that businesses get lost in today too as well.

How do I attribute that data? How do I attribute that data? I think we’re getting closer. We’re getting closer with the analytics tools and co-word analysis and everything else that we’re able to see what percentage email is having on a visit in a sale and everything else. I think AI might be the special gift that keeps on giving there as well.

Joel Book: Well, I think the other thing too that I’ve seen is that … Okay here’s the old cliché, the more things changed, the more they stay the same. What I mean by that is all marketing has become direct. I know I referenced that earlier, but going back to attribution, you and I grew up in an era of direct marketing and direct response advertising where we wanted to be able to attribute the purchase of a product back to its specific channel or action that the customer took.

We would use promo codes or we would invite the customer, register the product and then give him or her a reason to register it. I think some of that has been lost. If I would recommend one thing to marketing professionals today, I would say go back and read some of the great books on direct marketing. Read strategic database marketing by Arthur Middleton Hughes.

Douglas Karr: It’s on our shelf.

Joel Book: It still continues today to be one of the really great authoritative resources on marketing and when I say all marketing has become direct, it’s because today we need to be able to be smart about attributing purchases back to a specific channel or tactic so that we can know what works best and that’s why I think one of the best things marketers could do today Doug is go back to school on the principles, the fundamentals of effective direct marketing.

Douglas Karr: Yeah, I think there’s a push back. The push back with consumers on privacy data and blocking cookies and everything else. Part of that was because marketers didn’t utilize the data to make a great experience. If you’re collecting all these data about me and you’re not improving my customer experience, why am I giving you all my data? I think that as marketers, we’re going through a time here especially Europe I think is a little bit ahead of us where they’re really starting to block a lot from marketers finding out this information.

Joel Book: I think they are, but one of the things that I have seen is that if you, some of the best data collection is that which is observational or behavior based. Let me give you an example. One of the smartest users of our marketing technology at Salesforce is L’Oréal. Anybody listening to this broadcast will know that L’Oréal is one of the worldwide leaders in beauty products. They currently have about a 16% share.
L’Oréal is not just one brand. It’s a collection of brands Kiehl’s. One of the products I used daily is a L’Oréal brand. One of the things that L’Oréal, as a consumer package goods marketer, realized was that they didn’t really have first party data. They did not really have information about the individuals primarily women who were using their products.

One of the things that they accurately observed with the help of their agency was that if they were going to be successful in increasing share of a consumer’s purchases, you and I would recognize this as CLTV, customer lifetime value that they needed to become much better at direct marketing.

A little over three years ago L’Oréal said, “Let’s take one of our markets.” They started in Australia and New Zealand and they said, “Let’s put together a strategy that allows us to really learn more about our customers. Let’s find a way to make it easy for them to engage with us so that we can begin to learn more about them.” What they were basically saying is we want first party data, then we want to begin to use that to start to recommend products that we think would be really relevant to that consumer.

Their strategy was brilliant. The tip of that spear, the focal point of the strategy was a mobile app that they created called makeup genius. It’s an app that literally allows the woman to scan her image into the app and then she can select different products and literally through the app see how those products would appear on her face, how it would help her achieve the kind of beauty or the look that she was desiring. They developed the app, they tested it.

Once they were ready for launch, they used social media advertising to promote it. When a woman would click on the ad on Facebook or Instagram or Pinterest, it would take her to a landing page where she was then exposed to the makeup genius app invited to download it and install it and then the process of doing so, she was invited to opt in to receive special promotions and offers from L’Oréal via email as well as mobile push notifications, alerts that were product specific.

L’Oréal launched this in Australia and New Zealand. It became a phenomenal success. L’Oréal in the span of three years has now developed a one-to-one relationship with more than 50% of all of the users of its products in that marketplace. More importantly, they have now gone from being solely dependent on just brand advertising Doug and they are now an incredibly smart savvy direct marketer of L’Oréal products because they now have built this database of consumer information based on observing what products this particular customer is testing or evaluating through the makeup genius app.

Douglas Karr: Wow. How many millions of dollars are they receiving in surveys and focus groups and …

Joel Book: It’s phenomenal and the other thing that they do that is so smart once that L’Oréal customer achieves the level of beauty and it’s that aha moment, Google talks about these micro moments, what L’Oréal does is then invite her to share, share your look via Facebook with your friends. They’re now developing this multiplier effect of promotion because as you know your best customers, your best marketers are your customers.

Douglas Karr: It’s such a perfect example to that of they are providing an incredible value to their consumer in trade for that data.

Joel Book: They are.

Douglas Karr: Their customers don’t mind because they’re getting those offers that are specific and personalized.

Joel Book: They really are, but look at what L’Oréal is doing. They now have put themselves in a position where they can now cross promote.

Douglas Karr: Yeah.
Joel Book: Different brands to that consumer based on what they are learning about the consumer’s skin type, color, dry skin versus oily, what specific products they like or prefer and then they can cross promote. They’ve put themselves I think in a great position to now start to maximize a greater share of that consumer’s purchases so that’s what they’re doing to compete.
Douglas Karr: That’s fantastic. Wow. What a conversation. I feel like we’ve summed up 41 years pretty good here.
Joel Book: Well, that’s why I said at the beginning. It’s been such a privilege for me and I don’t mean that in a cavalier way. It’s just been a privilege being a teacher and being able to share these examples with brands of what’s possible and what are the smart brands doing and what are the components of a really successful digital marketing strategy.

That’s been my job for ten years at exact target and then now the last four years at Salesforce, I could not have asked for a better way to cap off my career. It’s just been a blessing.

Douglas Karr: Well, coming from the exact target and seeing Salesforce, they couldn’t have had a better person working with them to drive the message forward.

Joel Book: Well, it’s really kind of you to say that. We work very hard at Salesforce to bring products, to bring solutions to our customers that work together that allow them to become very customer-focused, of course a lot of people listening to this broadcast will know that we refer to our collection, our portfolio of solutions as the customer success platform because what drives us is not just delivering great marketing technology over here and great customer service technology over here, but delivering to our customers a variety of different solutions that all work interchangeably together that all shared data that allow the customer service people to have access to the same data that the marketing professionals have or the ecommerce professionals have because all of that at the end of the day is designed to deliver a unified customer experience.

Douglas Karr: It makes everybody’s job internally easier when that data is in the right place and it makes every customer experience that much more special because it’s personalized and you have an empathetic person sitting on the other end of the phone. It’s such an essential piece of every size business I think nowadays.

Joel Book: It is. We have the good fortune of working with companies, B2C, B2B, non-profits, associations, all sizes and not all of our customers use all of our products are the same way. Some specifically use sales cloud to automate sales. Others use sales cloud now in combination with service cloud or marketing cloud.

The reason that we acquired demand where in 2016 was so that we would now have a state of the art ecommerce solution that work in hand in glove with these other technologies. Depending on what size company you are, what your needs are, how you want to serve your customers, engage with them, we have solutions that can scale to meet your needs.

Douglas Karr: For those that are listening that if … You must be under a rock if you’ve never been to, but of course could a, if you’re in Canada of course, but visit on Twitter, Facebook. I would encourage everybody to sign up for their newsletters. They’re absolutely amazing newsletters with … There’s almost a million dollar case studies every single week that come out of the engine that is Salesforce and it’s always fascinating information.

Joel Book: Well, we really try to give back. We really try to feed the appetite of individuals to learn more. Obviously, my area of expertise is in the marketing side. I would echo which you just advised your listeners, visit the Salesforce marketing cloud blog, opt in to receive the emails. You’ll find access to great case studies, used cases.

One of the other great podcast that’s also out there is called The Marketing Cloudcast which is hosted by my good friend and colleague Heike Young and in that podcast, we typically feature interviews with some of our more progressive customers and that’s a great source of knowledge as well.

Plenty of resources out there. I think if you’re going to be an effective marketer today, you got to be informed and there’s a wealth of information out there both from Salesforce as well as other organizations out there.

Douglas Karr: Absolutely. Well, Joel I can’t thank you enough. This is just an incredible treat and I’m glad I caught you before you ran off to Tahiti.

Joel Book: Thank you Doug. It’s been so good seeing you again. Thanks so much again for the invitation and congratulations to you on all your success at DK New Media.

Douglas Karr: Thank you, sir.

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For sites like my own, the holiday season could look quite depressing as I review analytics. Overall traffic is down along with organic traffic as my audience shifts to holiday mode and begins to put off efforts until after the New Year. It’s also a time when I have to reassure both myself and my clients that we’re performing well despite the negatives we see on month-over-month or seasonal declines. Key to reassuring yourself is to utilize Google Trends as a benchmark to analyze your traffic to. Good friends of mine own an Indianapolis pest control company. As fall turns

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